Have you considered who these people were – These Saints that like the prophets, like the apostles and like all the martyr’s though out the ages….The church will take casualties.
Daniel 7 v 21-25 I kept looking, and that horn was waging war with the saints and overpowering them until the Ancient of Days came and judgment was passed in favor of the saints of the Highest One, and the time arrived when the saints took possession of the kingdom. He will speak against the Most High and oppress His saints and try to change the set times and the laws. The saints will be handed over to him for a time, times and half a time.
Revelation 13 v7 – And the beast was allowed to wage war against God’s holy people and to conquer them. And he was given authority to rule over every tribe and people and language and nation.
It appears the Church and the Saints suffer at the hands of the Anti Messiah. They are not delivered.
There is no question that Paul referred his readers to the Olivet Discourse, which only teaches a post-tribulation coming of Yeshua, to answer their questions about the rapture.
| Rapture Vs 2nd Coming in Revelation Comparison | Yeshua | Paul |
| Resurrection | John 6:39,44 | 1 Thess. 4:13-16 |
| Trumpet | Matt. 24:31 | 1 Thess. 4:13 |
| Angels | Matt. 24:31 Matt. 25:31 | 1 Thess. 4:16 2 Thess. 1:7 |
| Gathering [elect] | Matt. 24:31 | 2 Thess. 2:1 |
| Clouds | Matt. 24:30 | 1 Thess. 4:17 |
| Day of the Lord is Thief in the night | Matt. 24:42-44 | 1 Thess. 5:2 |
| Surprise the world | Luke 21:35 | 1 Thess. 5:2,3 |
| Sleeping / watching | Mark 13:35-37 | 1 Thess. 5:6 |
| Warning against drunkenness | Matt. 24:49 Luke 21:34 | 1 Thess. 5:7,8 |
| Exempt from wrath | Luke 21:18,36 | 1 Thess. 5:9 |
| Church to continue until end of tribulation | Matt. 24:29-31 Mark 13:14-17 | 2 Thess. 1:7-10 2 Thess. 2:1-3 |
| Falling away [apostasy] | Matt. 24:9-13 | 2 Thess. 2:3 |
| AntiYeshua comes first | Matt. 24:15 | 2 Thess. 2:1-3 |
| Temple defiled | Matt. 24:15 | 3 Thess. 2:4 |
| Warning against deception | Matt. 24:4,11,23-27 | 2 Thess. 2:2,3 |
| Signs come first | Mark 13:29 Luke 21:28 | 1 Thess. 5:4 2 Thess. 2:1-3 |
| Looking for the Kingdom of YHVH | Matt. 6:10 Luke 21:31 | 1 Cor. 15:50 2 Thess. 1: |
Chart of Pre/Post Tribulation Attributes
No pre-tribulation rapture advocate doubts there is also a post-tribulation gathering of the elect. It can be called the post-tribulation rapture. The question is whether or not there is also a gathering of YHVH’s people that happens before the tribulation. Let’s take a look at all the attributes of the assumed pre-tribulation rapture in relation to the Scripture-proven post-tribulation rapture. Are there really two raptures? Or is there just one?
The pre-trib rapture view requires the duplication of events that a post tribulation rapture position simplifies into one event. The same event is described in both passages, so pretribulationists must explain this duplication by saying that each of these events occur twice.(2X)
| Event | Pre-Tribulation Rapture | Post Tribulation Rapture | Bible Reference |
| Yeshua coming in the clouds | twice | once | #1Thes 4.17 #Matt 24.30 |
| Angelic involvement at His coming | twice | once | #1Thes 4.16 #Matt 24.31 |
| Resurrection of believers | Twice, with the second one called the “first resurrection” | once | #1Cor 15.52 #Rev 20.4-5 |
| Last trumpet sounds | Twice – Once Pre Trib | once | #1Cor 15.52 #Rev 11.15 |
| Saints are rewarded. | twice | once | #Rev 22.12 #Rev 11.18 |
| Believers are told to expectantly await His coming. | twice | once | #Titus 2.13 #Matt 24.42 |
| Yeshua’s advent to initiate the day of the YHVH is illustrated as being like the coming of a thief. | twice | once | #1Thes 5.2 #Rev 16.15 |
| The sun is darkened, the moon is turned to blood (or darkened), the stars fall from the sky, and the powers of heaven are shaken (wonders in the sky or stars lose their brightness). | three times | once | #Joel 2.30-31 #Joel 3.14-16 #Rev 6.12 #Matt 24.29 |
